In this episode of The Matt Babcock Show, NBA Draft Analyst Matt Babcock shares his experiences from a recent trip to Indianapolis, Indiana. He reflects on his first visit during the 1999 NBA Playoffs and contrasts it with his latest trip. He recounts memorable moments watching the Milwaukee Bucks face off against the Indiana Pacers and describes valuable lessons learned from dining with NBA executives at St. Elmo Steakhouse.
Babcock also discusses attending the State Farm Champions Classic, highlighting top college basketball prospects like Oscar Tshiebwe, Cason Wallace, Jalen Wilson, and Gradey Dick.
Throughout the episode, Babcock emphasizes the importance of learning from seasoned professionals and how these experiences have influenced his career.
Transcript from The Matt Babcock Show: Scouting in Indianapolis, and Very Spicy Shrimp Cocktail, Nov 23, 2022
Matt Babcock: “I recently traveled to Indianapolis, Indiana, a place I've become very familiar with over the years. I'd like to share some details of my first visit to Indy, and also my most recent one.
“I'm Matt Babcock, and this is The Matt Babcock Show.
"I remember the first time I went to Indianapolis. I was in high school, and I flew down with my dad, a couple of his coworkers, and Senator Kohl, the owner of the Milwaukee Bucks at the time. We flew on Senator Kohl's private plane, and we went for game one of the 1999 NBA Playoffs as the Bucks were facing the Pacers.
"The Bucks were a young, up-and-coming team that featured players Ray Allen, Glenn ‘Big Dog’ Robinson, and Sam Cassell versus a Pacers team that starred Reggie Miller. George Karl was the head coach of the Bucks then, and his son, Coby, was my good friend and teammate. George made sure Coby and I had unlimited access.
"We were in the locker room before, at halftime, and after the game, and we didn't even have assigned seats as we sat on the court near the team's bench. That was the first time the Bucks made the playoffs since my dad began working there in 1997, and I mentioned it was my first time attending a playoff game. Well, to be able to sit on the court to watch Reggie Miller was something I certainly don't take for granted.
"Reggie was cocky. He talked trash nonstop, and he had this arrogance about him that would get under your skin. However, he was really good.
"I wrote about this experience a few years ago. Here's an excerpt describing Reggie that I'd like to share.
“I watched Reggie Miller operate while sitting nearly steps away. I watched his method closely. As Mark Jackson would initiate the offense off the dribble, Reggie would take his defender deep into the paint, under or around the basket, and he would initiate contact with his defender many times by grabbing their jersey. Reggie would take a couple of moments to set up his defender, and then at the right moment, he would take off, many times beginning with a shove to his defender's chest.
"He would sprint towards one of the hammering screens that were set by Rik Smits or by Dale or Antonio Davis. If the screener's defender didn't show, Reggie would turn the corner off those screens like a runner in baseball, rounding third base to home plate. Mark Jackson would deliver a pass right into Miller's numbers as he did a quick one-two step into his jump shot.
"A high release and a high-arching trajectory. When Miller would release a deep three, the Pacers arena would have a sound effect of a bomb being dropped while the ball was in the air, and when the ball would go through the net, it would have a sound of an explosion. The images and sounds of Reggie Miller coming off screens to bury deep threes against the Bucks are tattooed in my head to this day.
"I have seen a lot of basketball throughout my life. However, my memories of watching Reggie Miller are some of my most treasured. I'm certainly thankful for those opportunities.
"I had a few firsts on that trip to Indianapolis. In addition to it being my first time to the city, it was my first time attending an NBA playoff game. It was my first time going to St. Elmo Steakhouse.
"In addition to the obvious advantages of having a dad that worked in the NBA while growing up, one of the best parts that one might not think of was being able to tag along for all the great dinners. Of course, eating at fancy restaurants is something everyone likes, and I did. Still, I value the relationships mostly, and the knowledge and experience I could absorb by just being a sponge and listening.
"My first trip to Indianapolis was a perfect example. I joined my dad's boss, Ernie Grunfeld, the general manager of the Bucks, a longtime former player and an executive, and then Larry Harris, who's the assistant GM, and had a similar background as me as his dad is Del Harris, a longtime NBA coach, and Danny Kohl, Senator Kohl's nephew, who was also an assistant general manager, and my dad, who was director of player personnel. Well, we had dinner at St. Elmo's Steakhouse in downtown Indianapolis.
"I loved listening to Ernie share stories about his playing days in Tennessee with Bernard King, or playing in the NBA during the late 1970s and early 1980s, and then being the general manager with the Knicks during the Ewing and Pat Riley years. I've learned a lot about basketball from guys like Ernie by just being around them and listening. My best lessons weren't learned in a classroom, a gym, or an office. It was at restaurants.
“So for young people wanting to work in basketball, do whatever you can to be around experienced people and just be a sponge. Listen and absorb.
"Anyway, back to our dinner at St. Elmo's. The group ordered a shrimp cocktail, and when it arrived, Ernie said, ‘Matt, do the honors.’ And I gladly accepted.
"So I grabbed this giant piece of shrimp covered in cocktail sauce. And as I sank my teeth into this beautiful piece of shrimp, I initially thought it was delicious. Then, however, I suddenly felt a dramatic sensation in my mouth, nose, and face.
"I thought, ‘What was happening to me?’ This thing was spicy as heck, and the heat was kicking in. And when it did, it practically took over my whole body.
"I was coughing, crying, and sweating all at the same time. I was a complete mess. As I looked up, the entire group erupted in laughter.
"These were all veteran NBA execs who, like I am today, were well-traveled and had been to St. Elmo's many times. And well, if you've been to St. Elmo before, you know it's famous for its spicy shrimp cocktail sauce, and it's got a major kick. Well, my dad and his guys set me up and got me pretty good.
"My dad and I still laugh about that story occasionally. Many years have passed since that night, and I have now been to St. Elmo many times, as I always make it a point to pencil it into my itinerary when visiting Indianapolis. And you know what?
"I order the shrimp cocktail every time I go. St. Elmo's is one of my favorite places, just a charming old-school steakhouse. So when I stopped in for a quick bite on my recent trip to Indianapolis, I thought about that first trip there with my dad and his coworkers, and really felt appreciative that I've been fortunate to have had the opportunities to be around so many experienced basketball people and learn from them.
"So enough of the daydreaming. I had a game to go to. So I left St. Elmo's and walked over to the Gainbridge Fieldhouse where the Pacers play.
"However, that night, I had two monstrous college matchups to watch. The first matchup had two heavyweight programs, Michigan State and Kentucky, led by Hall of Fame coaches, Tom Izzo and John Calipari. The game was a battle from the start and never let up the entire time.
"It had the feel of a game in March, not November. It was great to see. And to my surprise, last year's college player of the year, Oscar Tshiebwe, played for the first time after coming off an injury.
"I wasn't expecting him to play at all, but he did, and he was terrific. He led Kentucky, just like he did all of last year. Oscar scored 22 points, grabbed 18 rebounds, and blocked four shots.
"Freshman Cason Wallace was very good for Kentucky, too. He has solid size for a combo guard and seems very mature and poised for being so young. He checks many boxes and reminds me of Jrue Holiday a little bit.
"And though Tshiebwe and Wallace were the only two players that performed well enough for me to write home about, Kentucky is always loaded with talent, making it hard to evaluate sometimes. For example, guys like Daimion Collins and Chris Livingston didn't get a chance to do a whole lot that night, but I know they have NBA talent, so I'll keep tracking them. As for Michigan State, they are an outstanding college team, but I'm not sure they have any surefire NBA draft picks.
"However, Malik Hall and Joey Hauser were very productive in this game. Hauser shot the heck out of the ball. I'm also excited about Jaden Akins' future.
"Jaden is a member of Damian Lillard's Formula Zero, so I've gotten to know him. He's been battling lingering injuries, but I expect him to play a more prominent role as he gets back into shape. Well, the game went back and forth all night between the two teams, but when Tshiebwe fouled out, Michigan State made a push, leading them to get the W in double overtime.
"A typical Tom Izzo-led team, where they might not have as much NBA talent as some of their opponents, they find ways to win games. And that's what happened that night. Izzo's team always plays hard and they execute well.
"They grind, like a football team that uses a power back to chip away to gain yardage. As a player, you might need to endure tough coaching with Izzo, because he'll hold you accountable, but as a result, he develops winners. I have a little-known story about Izzo.
"My Uncle Pete was the General Manager of the Atlanta Hawks, and he was in the market to hire a new head coach. Per my Dad's referral, my Uncle interviewed Izzo for the job, and subsequently made him an offer. From my understanding, Izzo was leaning towards accepting the job, and did everything but formally take it.
"However, after sleeping on it, he decided he didn't want to leave Michigan State. Thinking about that makes me want to play the what-if game. What if Izzo had gone to the Hawks?
"How would that have changed the Hawks organization and my Uncle's career? Would Izzo have become a Hall of Fame level NBA coach? What would have happened to the Michigan State program?
"Well, it was close to happening, but it didn't. And although Izzo ultimately turned down my Uncle's offer, his relationship with my family has remained solid. My cousin Nate started his coaching career as a grad assistant for Izzo at Michigan State.
"He was there when Draymond Green was on the team. Oh, and yes, he has some great stories about Draymond and Izzo going at it. Two big personalities right there.
"I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for some of those practices. Maybe we'll get one of those guys on the show some time to discuss. Anyway, let's get back to the State Farm Champions Classic.
"The first game would have made for a big night by itself, but we were just getting started as the second game featured even more NBA prospects. So after last season, Duke lost a lot as Coach K retired, and then just about their entire team went to the NBA. Paolo Banchero was the number one pick.
"Mark Williams, 15th. AJ Griffin, 16th. Wendell Moore, 26th.
"And Trevor Keels, 42nd. You'd think they'd be in a rebuilding year this season, but no, they reloaded. Former Duke player and assistant coach Jon Scheyer took over for Coach K and brought in the number one recruiting class in the country.
"First, three of the top players in the class of 2022. Dariq Whitehead, Dereck Lively, and Kyle Filipowski. And then two other highly rated prospects in Mark Mitchell and Aussie guard, Tyrese Proctor.
"Luckily, besides Tyrese Proctor, I had seen all of these guys play when they were in high school, so I wasn't starting my evaluation process from scratch. I had a head start. Still, I also had to evaluate Kansas' players, most notably freshman Gradey Dick and junior forward Jalen Wilson, another guy that we had at Formula Zero in Portland this past summer.
"As you can imagine, as the ball tipped, my eyes were all over the court as I tried to watch and analyze multiple players simultaneously. Scouting games like this can be overwhelming and sometimes feel like an overload of information. The game was a little sloppy at first, but overall, I thought it was a competitive game with a great atmosphere.
"I really enjoyed it. And most importantly, it was productive from a scouting standpoint. So here are a few quick thoughts on some of the prospects.
"Dariq Whitehead didn't play as he was still recovering from injury. Dereck Lively was quiet, but his length, mobility, and skill level are intriguing. Kyle Filipowski was very impressive.
"He's big, isn't afraid of contact, can stretch the floor, and can score on multiple levels. Oh, and he's all over the boards. I was impressed with him.
"I can see him moving up. Mark Mitchell is an effective scorer as a slasher. My question is, how well does his style translate to the next level?
"It was my first time seeing Tyrese Proctor in person. He had struggled in Duke's first couple of games pretty badly. However, in this game, he made a few moves and hit some shots that show why some people are excited about him as an NBA prospect.
"I need to keep a firm pulse on his progression. He seems to have the potential to be a smooth scoring combo guard with legitimate size as he stands at 6'5. For Kansas, Jalen Wilson looked like a stud.
"He wasn't hitting shots from outside, but did just about everything else. I'm getting to the point where I'm changing my question about Jalen. It's not if he will be in this year's draft, but how high?
"And Gradey Dick was excellent. He has positional size for a wing shooter, but he's not limited to just being a shooter. He's aggressive and effective to the hole.
"I had him projected as a first-rounder going to that game, and I think that's spot on. Despite having less NBA talent, Kansas won the game. And for me, it was such a productive night.
"But it was a long night of basketball, and it was late. I was exhausted. I had to go to sleep ASAP.
"Not just because I was tired, but because I had another big day ahead of me. The following day, I had an early flight. Next stop, Austin, Texas.
"Stay tuned for our next episode as I share more details of growing up and working in hoops and all my travels along the way.
“I'm Matt Babcock, and this is The Matt Babcock Show. Thanks for tuning in.”
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